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 Post subject: Sac Bee Talks about PL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:18 am 
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Yuba homebuyers face mounting commuting costs
By Jim Wasserman - jwasserman@sacbee.com
Published 12:00 am PDT Sunday, June 1, 2008

Gracie and Louis Prado moved to Yuba County's new commuter subdivisions later than most people, arriving just 16 months ago from Elk Grove. But they came for the same reason thousands did since 2002: more elbow room and a big house for less money.

Yet the trade the Prados made for a bargain home just south of the county seat of Marysville – a long commute to work in Sacramento – is now chewing on their incomes. As they make their way back and forth on Highway 70, the spike in gas prices is sucking an estimated $200 to $250 a week from their wallets.

"We just didn't think gas would go to $4 a gallon," says Louis Prado, who commutes 104 miles daily from the east Linda neighborhood of Edgewater in a V-8-powered pickup truck to his job as an office manager in Rancho Cordova. Gracie Prado commutes 98 miles daily in a recently bought Saturn to a nursing job in Sacramento.

Michael Roberts, too, never expected these gasoline prices when he and his wife moved from Sacramento to Olivehurst's Plumas Lake two years ago.

"I figured $4 a gallon is as far as it could ever go," he said, standing in the driveway of his single-story house.

Roberts drives 76 miles a day to and from his job as an electrician at Union Pacific Railroad in Roseville. His wife drives 100 miles daily to Rancho Cordova and back.

The housing downturn has hit communities all around the region hard. But as commuters like the Robertses and the Prados suffer individually at the gas pumps in Yuba County, real estate experts are looking beyond mortgage and credit issues and are now starting to ask larger questions about the impact of expensive oil on such far-flung neighborhoods whose futures were tied to a metropolis many miles away:

Could they become a suburban equivalent of ghost towns? Will they languish for years while awaiting local job growth, more fuel-efficient cars and a vibrant mass transit system? Is this the end of that kind of residential growth?

The questions take on new significance even as the housing downturn has weakened Sacramento's closer suburban commuter neighborhoods like Elk Grove, Lincoln and Rancho Cordova. On the other hand, older neighborhoods near job centers downtown have largely held their values.

As distant commuter neighborhoods across the state face similar sharp downturns – the Inland Empire of Southern California and the I-5 corridor of San Joaquin County, to cite two prominent examples – answers vary about oil's potential to make such places decidedly unattractive to homebuyers.

But already there is concern along Highway 70 into Yuba County.

Commuting factor changes

For two decades a single economic assumption has steered plans for 20,000 home lots in the Plumas Lake and Edgewater communities: an affordable commute to Sacramento, Placer County and even to Bay Area cities.

It was magic when gasoline sold for well under $2 a gallon, as it did in 2002 when the housing boom started taking off. By late 2003, as home prices began to soar, more than 2,500 new houses were sold in Yuba County. In all more than 4,000 were sold between 2002 and 2007.

Today, the state Department of Finance says Yuba County has 71,929 residents, up nearly 7,000 since January 2004.

Homebuyers found quick rewards: a new house that at first cost $100,000 less than in Sacramento County and $170,000 less than in Placer County – with a bigger yard. But as demand has grown, the gap has narrowed. The median price for a new Sacramento County home today is just $30,000 higher than in Yuba County.

One reason for the long commutes is Yuba County's job picture. April unemployment reached 11 percent, according to state figures. Beyond Beale Air Force Base, agriculture and the public sector, there are few major employers.

Yuba County Planning Director Wendy Hartman says the county is working to grow the job base.

"Our goal is to bring a jobs-housing balance to Yuba County so folks won't have to worry about commuting into Sacramento, Placer County or the Bay Area for jobs," she says.

But that will take time. With the housing downturn and high gas prices, lack of buyer interest is obvious in parts of Edgewater and Plumas Lake.

In both neighborhoods, some model home complexes stand empty inside undeveloped subdivisions. Many finished homes have signs in front windows advertising them as available. Thousands of lots, readied for development during the housing boom with sidewalks, streets, utility lines and street signs, have become fields of weeds.

At the current sales pace, real estate experts say, it will take 13 years to develop and sell all the new homes planned in Yuba County and its neighbor, Sutter County.

"That is horrifying. That's like seeing a mouse under the table," says Dean Wehrli, a Sacramento-based home-building industry consultant, addressing a home-builders meeting last week. "My take is that marketplace is going to be hurting for a while."

Last week, the California Building Industry reported that the combined Yuba-Sutter County metropolitan area suffered California's most dramatic drop – 88 percent from a year ago – in residential building permits.

Gracie Prado confesses that she'd like to move back to Elk Grove, closer to work. So apparently do many others.

"A neighbor said if she had known then what she knows now (about gas prices), she might have bought in Sacramento," says Kathy O'Donnell, who retired to Plumas Lake about the same time the Prados moved to Edgewater.

Home prices decline

Residents are also seeing their home values drop steeply. A plague of mortgage defaults and foreclosures has pushed median sales prices for new homes down 21.5 percent in the past year, according to La Jolla-based DataQuick Information Systems.

One well-known national analyst predicts that such suburban developments, far from jobs and dependent on cars, will never see a rebound in value or sales activity.

"The bottom line is the suburban project is over for America. We're done," said James Howard Kunstler, author of "The Long Emergency," a 2005 book about oil shortages. Kunstler said places like Plumas Lake are creations of cheap oil and can survive only on that premise.

"They're going down, and they aren't coming back," said Kunstler, on the phone from New York, where he lives.

Mike McKeever, executive director of the Sacramento Council of Governments, is less sure about the future. But McKeever, who heads a regional agency that advocates housing near jobs and transit, calls faraway commuter living an "increasingly difficult development pattern to view as sustainable and economically viable."

"We try to encourage our local governments on the edge of the region – that could be Yuba County, it could be Winters, Placerville or Galt – to try really hard to have their growth driven by economic development and jobs, and then bring the houses in to supply the shelter," he said.

Home-building industry consultant Greg Paquin concedes places like Plumas Lake and Edgewater may see fewer sales as a result of higher oil prices. But they won't "fall completely off the map," he says.

Paquin, president of the Folsom-based Gregory Group, says some commuters are likely to buy in Plumas Lake when home building in Sacramento's Natomas area is halted for up to two years. Builders face a moratorium there soon until levees are strengthened.

He also foresees more telecommuting and Internet-based work "that makes it feasible to live out there (Yuba County) and drive three days a week."

Area retains appeal

It's easy to see why people wanted to move to the area. Home lots are usually bigger, and it takes almost no time to drive into the country. Some Plumas Lake homes back up to orchards, and many in Edgewater have views of the Sierra foothills.

Edgewater resident Paul Archuleta believes it will take more than $4 gasoline to halt the commuters. He left the Sacramento "rat race" eight months ago to buy a new Highway 70 home for $210,000.

"If it comes to $5 a gallon, it's not going to matter to anybody," he says.

But Archuleta is different from many: He just started a job with a Yuba County heating and air conditioning firm, escaping his daily commute to Sacramento. He says he is talking now with his wife, who commutes daily to Sacramento, about selling her Jeep and buying a hybrid.

Go to: Sacbee / Back to story

This article is protected by copyright and should not be printed or distributed for anything except personal use.
The Sacramento Bee, 2100 Q St., P.O. Box 15779, Sacramento, CA 95852
Phone: (916) 321-1000

Copyright © The Sacramento Bee


http://www.sacbee.com/103/story/977978.html


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:05 am 
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Jeez TOD why not tell us something we DON'T know?

My instincts are to find the positive side when faced with critical situations that you don't have any control over. Everyone is feeling a pinch of some kind regardless of where they live.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:46 am 
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Boy, talk about a reporter who has a negative attitude!

This story could have been written about any area - he just chose to write about Plumas Lake. In other words, commuting expenses have gone up for us but not any more than for people who live El Dorado Hills and work in Sacramento.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 11:59 am 
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This Article also GREATLY exaggerates the distances most people here drive. The City limits for Sacto are only 22 miles from my front door. Rancho Cordova, Folsom, Eldorados Hills, Roseville, Rocklin, Loomis, Lincoln, and several other communities to the South of Sac. Have similar or even greater commutes, and had similar "job problems" when they were first built up. Before you can have job growth, you have to have a population to provide the labor. Nobody builds a business off of an area with no customers.

I don't know who these people are who are driving 100 miles daily, but if that's the case, you can blame yourself for your troubles, not PL or the gas prices (though they don't help). Even my wife, who commutes to Roseville daily, doesn't do 100 miles, and it is rare for me (and I often have to drive a long way to reach a clients property) to do a hundred mile round trip.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:07 pm 
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It is sad how the sacbee can be so negative about our community. Maybe the city is upset over lost property tax revenue for families moving out of the county to a more friendly family oriented community. I lived in Natomas park from 2001 until we moved here in 05'. I left a 7 mile commute and never looked back. I commute daily to Sutter medical center sacramento the move added 25 miles to my commute. Even at $10 a gallon, nothing will make me wish I never moved here. Natomas has turned for the worse in my opinion, Plumas lake keeps getting better, and better. I dont see Sacramento working on levee's or freeway expansion.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Car Salesman: Mr Prado, what are you looking for in a vehicle?

Mr Prado: I commute over 100 miles a day, What do you have in gas guzzlers here on the lot?

:roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:17 pm 
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I do 120 miles a day, more if I have to pick up my child in Yuba City. I'm not complaining. I like it here. I'll take the hit for a little while until the economy comes back. Until then, I'll just ride my motorcycle to work.

In the long run though, I see the cost of gas seriously affecting the area. I have seen two families give up there houses here in the last month or so based mostly on the cost of gas and their commute times.

In a few years, if things continue to go the way they are, the builders around here are going to unload their houses at prices even dirt poor, inbred, Olivehurst meth dealers could afford.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 1:49 pm 
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I understand that gas prices are high, but here is my question...

Were these people so maxed out in their budgets, that a $1 increase in the price of a gallon of gas caused a financial emergency? I am not trying to be rude or cold hearted, but are we as a society strapping ourselves for cash so much that this causes us to lose our homes?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:15 pm 
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Sacbee :nay:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 5:24 pm 
ThatOneDude wrote:
I understand that gas prices are high, but here is my question...

Were these people so maxed out in their budgets, that a $1 increase in the price of a gallon of gas caused a financial emergency? I am not trying to be rude or cold hearted, but are we as a society strapping ourselves for cash so much that this causes us to lose our homes?


TOD - The problem is not solely the cst of filling up out tanks, but how the price of gas and diesel affects other services, i.e. food, clothing, etc. The cost of transporting goods, the cost to harvest the food. Everything adds up and in the end people whose budget may already be tight get pushed over the edge.


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 Post subject: Sac Bee talks about PL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 6:29 pm 
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What do you expect from a non union newspaper! Not that the union papers reporters would paint a prettier picture. We love PL and the Bee can go sting itself. If it can't sting itself then we can load up our wolf spiders and give them a run for their money, lol.


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 Post subject: Re: Sac Bee talks about PL
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 7:33 pm 
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GMOM8 wrote:
... We love PL and the Bee can go sting itself. If it can't sting itself then we can load up our wolf spiders and give them a run for their money, lol.


X2 Totally agree, in fact I believe I have some to donate!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 8:48 pm 
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Typical Sacbee article! While they portray Plumas Lake to be a "Ghost town" they fail to mention that we are no further from the metrololis than many other areas around Sacramento. I work with several people who commute further than I do to downtown, yet their towns are not listed. The Sac Bee is garbage! Every article you read from them, you need to consider the other side. Thier media is biased and their stories are typically full of fiction. It would be great to have a competing Sacramento newspaper to put a little pressure on them. We all read things from it because it is the only paper, not because it is the best!

Plumas Lake is the place we all chose to live because we like it out here and like what the community has to offer whether it be bigger homes, or bigger lots! Who cares what they want to write about! If they want to write an article that is worthwhile, write about our lack of retail services or about the great neighbors and community that is out here!

I guess we should read every article form them and consider it an opinion, rather than fact!

Best to all of you...


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 Post subject: Sac Bee
PostPosted: Sun Jun 01, 2008 9:22 pm 
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Let's start writing letters to the editor of the BEE. Let him know that we are proud to be Plumas Lakers. We don't have the noise to content with daily, like other areas - no sirens, traffic, etc. That we have beautiful sunrises and sunsets. We even have the most beautiful star studded sky, etc. His newspaper is a bunch of bias crap.


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 Post subject: Re: Sac Bee
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:18 am 
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GMOM8 wrote:
Let's start writing letters to the editor of the BEE. Let him know that we are proud to be Plumas Lakers. We don't have the noise to content with daily, like other areas - no sirens, traffic, etc. That we have beautiful sunrises and sunsets. We even have the most beautiful star studded sky, etc. His newspaper is a bunch of bias crap.


We should also be able to comment on that story. I haven't done so yet, but great idea!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:26 am 
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I sent the following e-mail to Jim:

Jim,

I would like to invite you to join the conversation at this location.

http://forum.plumaslakelife.com/viewtop ... highlight=

Plumas Lake still has many very happy residents. We believe your story only focused on the negative aspect of our community, and would like an opportunity to tell the overwhelmingly positive side!

Thank you,
Craig Bommarito


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:01 am 
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Excellent!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 11:06 am 
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Craig: I just posted your forum on my Home Front blog for all to see.

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/real_estate/

Jim Wasserman
Senior Business Writer
The Sacramento Bee
2100 Q St.
Sacramento, CA 95852
916-321-1102
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 1:55 pm 
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I would also like to point out that the Yuba Sutter Transit provides express bus service to downtown Sacramento. I have heard that once the interchange is done we may get a park and ride at Hwy70 and Plumas Lake Blvd.

Nice Job TOD!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:35 pm 
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Thanks TOD


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:35 pm 
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Thanks, Jim (Sacto Bee)!

Yes, Plumas Lake has provided my family a great place to thrive. We've had 2 of our family members move there families to PL . The air is clean (with the exception of when the farmer's kick up a little dust); the stars are clear and the residents have a feeling of being safe due to great representation by our local Sheriff's Department. (They'll even stop and let you know when you forget to close your garage door late at night!) As far as reaching destinations - I'm comfortably close (30 min) to Roseville or 25 minutes to downtown Sac. Everything's relative, but I love the people and small town feel here - PLUS our Supervisors work hard to keep us safe (see our new levee)!

On second thought, don't tell anyone else - I love to keep this secret all for my family!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 6:07 pm 
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Onceagin wrote:
On second thought, don't tell anyone else - I love to keep this secret all for my family!


x2


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:33 pm 
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Location: We have been asking for change, HERE IT COMES!
DOWN with the Sac Bee!!!!

Well, we all new this when we bought here. One thing to consider...

Folsom, Eldo Hills, Cameron Park, Auburn, all of these are the same commute distances to sacramento as us. Why are they doing so much better?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:35 pm 
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DaddyGoFast wrote:
DOWN with the Sac Bee!!!!

Well, we all new this when we bought here. One thing to consider...

Folsom, Eldo Hills, Cameron Park, Auburn, all of these are the same commute distances to sacramento as us. Why are they doing so much better?


And the commute is much worse

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:36 pm 
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DaddyGoFast wrote:
DOWN with the Sac Bee!!!!

Well, we all new this when we bought here. One thing to consider...

Folsom, Eldo Hills, Cameron Park, Auburn, all of these are the same commute distances to sacramento as us. Why are they doing so much better?


Oh! IS that Rex jumping up and down with his hand raised, I think he thinks knows the answer

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 7:48 pm 
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Location: We have been asking for change, HERE IT COMES!
So why are their economies not making it on to the Bee? Why when you say you live in Plumas Lake they say, oh, thats out there.

When you say Eldo Hills or Folsom, they say oooh...

Same distance.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:07 pm 
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DaddyGoFast wrote:
So why are their economies not making it on to the Bee? Why when you say you live in Plumas Lake they say, oh, thats out there.

When you say Eldo Hills or Folsom, they say oooh...

Same distance.


I believe it is a right side of the tracks vs wrong side of the tracks issue.

If you live in Eldorado Hills or Folsom you are considered upper class and therefore they can look down there noses at us common folk.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:11 pm 
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Well... that may be true to some extent I guess.

I guess in today's world, paying 650k+ for a house automatically considers you better than the rest.

F'em!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:58 pm 
I pay $47.00 a month for my Sac Commuter bus pass (the state pays $65). My gas to get to the bus stop is $80.00 a month. The bus picks me up 10 miles from my house and drops me off literally at the front door of my workplace downtown. It's the easiest and cheapest commute I have ever had.

That article is complete horsesh[censored]t. Consider:

- More expensive gas will increase the need for mass transit and make more people want to ride. If anything, it will accelerate the building of transit networks, thereby allowing all of us "ghost town" folks to get downtown.

- 300,000 people a year are moving into this state. They have to live somewhere. They will not all be moving into high-rise apartment buildings in South Sac and Oak Park just to live close to downtown. They will spread out just like they always have. Population growth in the Sacramento area is set to explode in the next 20 to 40 years, and jobs will be created in all outlying areas.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:21 am 
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We just started riding the bus and it is pretty darn convient. I have to get off at downtown and tak another bus to Sac State but that worked out fine too.

It is interesting to me that the SacBee talked to people who don't commute. My neighbor told me they came during the day. They chose to select a negative comment instead of all the positives they gave to living in Plumas Lake. I would love to talk to the Sac Bee and tell them just how wonderful it is.


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 Post subject: Sac Bee
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 9:36 am 
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Here is my reply to J Wasserman at the Sac Bee regarding his article Sunday. Hope more residents will flood his mail box with letters.

Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2008 09:52:03

Subject: PLUMAS LAKE CA
To: jwasserman@sacbee.com

Mr Wasserman,

I read your article in the Sunday paper and am appalled. Why in the world would you paint such a negative article about an up coming neighborhood? What the h____. Do you think all communities start out with high rises, transit systems, local government, shopping malls, medical services, etc. As for the price of gas. Why don't you comment of the drive to the Bay Area or Silicon Valley. That has been goling on for for over 20 years for former Sacramento Bee employees as well as others that found better paying jobs. What about the other long commutes from Stockton, El Dorado Hills, Folsom just to name a few.

If you want a real truthful story of Plumas Lake CA. come on out and we shall have a committee here to greet you and show you around. We have a wonderful website that keeps us informed of what is happening in our neck of the woods as you would most likely like to think we are in.

God Bless you and hope you will come on out.

Gmom8


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:17 am 
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Yay they mentioned Edgewater too! :D :D

My average gas bill is $400 - $500 a month; premium fuel, trying to gas up @ Sam's in Natomas $4.38/gal; we recently bought a 93 Honda Accord to commute in [which will commence shortly], I work off Capitol Mall - so I get dropped off in the morning and picked up.. savin' money on the gas and keeping miles off the TL and 4Runner! :)


But.. we don't plan on moving; so our commute bill has gone up, I'd rather live in Edgewater and drive daily than move into some crummy old house located in the middle of Sacramento's worst!


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 Post subject: J Wasserman-Sac Bee response
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:22 am 
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Location: Cobblestone
Here is the response that I received from Jim Wasserman regarding his article on out community in the Sunday paper.

sorry to be late respnding here....I did say in the story that rising gas prices calls all those places that you describe here into question in the future. I appreciate your taking time to write and I have seen the Web site and posted it on my Home Front blog for all to read the comments about the article.

Jim Wasserman
Senior Business Writer
The Sacramento Bee
2100 Q St.
Sacramento, CA 95852
916-321-1102
jwasserman@sacbee.com


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